Marriage and babies
For a few weeks now I've been quietly brooding over the fact that one of my oldest friends in world has gone and gotten married and is now extremely pregnant.
I haven't even wrapped my brain around the fact that friends my age are married, let alone accept the fact that they might be making babies soon. God, the government should be so happy.
Seriously, the people around me are dropping like flies. One by one they flounce up and flash pretty pretty engagement rings at me while I stare at them with my mouth agape.
I honestly never expected the whole wedding parade to begin so soon. In my secret fantasy world somewhere, I always imagined that we'd all go through a nice long period of singlehood together before succumbing to the marriage institution.
The worst is that very few of the couples I know seem financially ready to stand on their own two feet, never mind support each other and pay off a housing loan. I'm watching with this sense of horror partly because I know that once you go down that road, you're just stuck forever. I want to scream at them to slow down and save a bit more money first before plunging but I can't. ( This is especially so for this couple I know who don't even have the cash for a public housing flat downpayment yet and are going to end up living with his parents for quite awhile, which is what happens when you decide to get engaged right after you graduate)
You can never decide to just quit a crap job to try out new things, never take on an overseas posting because you're tied down. You're stuck in Singapore for the rest of your life, raising children in a crowded flat.
It's difficult to say which aspect of the Singapore dream strikes so much terror into my heart. Perhaps its because I feel that once one takes on the burden of supporting a HDB flat, one is forever at the mercy of the government. Perhaps because once one is married, one has more to lose. With children, even more is at stake.
Plus in Singapore, life just seems to keep getting tougher. Its not just the economical woes, its the loss of space and freedom. And it doesn't help that I think small children and public transport were just not meant to go together which seems to be the idea behind the rise in ERP charges.
I guess I'm just not ready to grow up yet. Not really ready to take on the full mantle of adulthood and definitely not ready to make huge purchases that I'll have to spend the rest of my life paying off.
I know, intellectually anyway, that there isn't anything wrong with the whole marriage + babies scenario. But there's just something about being stuck in that rut for the next twenty years that really scares me.
It makes me resolve that now, while I'm relatively young and carefree, I want to go and do all the things I've always wanted to do first. The suburban nightmare can come later when I've hopefully accumulated a little more cash andwisdom.
I haven't even wrapped my brain around the fact that friends my age are married, let alone accept the fact that they might be making babies soon. God, the government should be so happy.
Seriously, the people around me are dropping like flies. One by one they flounce up and flash pretty pretty engagement rings at me while I stare at them with my mouth agape.
I honestly never expected the whole wedding parade to begin so soon. In my secret fantasy world somewhere, I always imagined that we'd all go through a nice long period of singlehood together before succumbing to the marriage institution.
The worst is that very few of the couples I know seem financially ready to stand on their own two feet, never mind support each other and pay off a housing loan. I'm watching with this sense of horror partly because I know that once you go down that road, you're just stuck forever. I want to scream at them to slow down and save a bit more money first before plunging but I can't. ( This is especially so for this couple I know who don't even have the cash for a public housing flat downpayment yet and are going to end up living with his parents for quite awhile, which is what happens when you decide to get engaged right after you graduate)
You can never decide to just quit a crap job to try out new things, never take on an overseas posting because you're tied down. You're stuck in Singapore for the rest of your life, raising children in a crowded flat.
It's difficult to say which aspect of the Singapore dream strikes so much terror into my heart. Perhaps its because I feel that once one takes on the burden of supporting a HDB flat, one is forever at the mercy of the government. Perhaps because once one is married, one has more to lose. With children, even more is at stake.
Plus in Singapore, life just seems to keep getting tougher. Its not just the economical woes, its the loss of space and freedom. And it doesn't help that I think small children and public transport were just not meant to go together which seems to be the idea behind the rise in ERP charges.
I guess I'm just not ready to grow up yet. Not really ready to take on the full mantle of adulthood and definitely not ready to make huge purchases that I'll have to spend the rest of my life paying off.
I know, intellectually anyway, that there isn't anything wrong with the whole marriage + babies scenario. But there's just something about being stuck in that rut for the next twenty years that really scares me.
It makes me resolve that now, while I'm relatively young and carefree, I want to go and do all the things I've always wanted to do first. The suburban nightmare can come later when I've hopefully accumulated a little more cash andwisdom.
posted by adinahaes at 11:58 PM
18 Comments:
you don't say..
chances are, most couples won't be able to afford a modest HDB flat's downpayment by themselves for the first 5 working years.. papa-mama loan lor..
I'm 29 and single.. rather enjoying it!
It's quite OK if you don't want to have babies, I think... :)
Well... what can one say?
Bahhhhhh!
Sheep!
Excuse the cynic in me, but it is so "Simon says..."
It is amazing how the average adult in Singapore succumbs to the propaganda machine of their Dear Leaders.
Out of the well and loving it. -ben
Nice post. Live the life the way you want it, but don't begrudge those couples the happiness they've achieved. Maybe they really are content with the way things are. :)
Hey there... I can certainly attest to your groove.
I've been away from S'pore for nearly 3 years, and just a couple of months ago observed that 5+ of my childhood friends (both guys and gals) have all tied the knot (with 2 couples oledy planning to make B.Bs)... it kinda made me sit down and think...
For 10 minutes.
After that, I proclaimed "Hogwash!", coz I'm still a good number of years before the big Three-O, so I'll get my feet on the ground (gotta have the green to make the scene) and enjoy life first!
Cheers to singlehood! Gan-bei!!!
Time to BUAY BEH PIO LOE!!
4d/ToTo/Big Sweep... within the 10 years, hoping to strike at least once so you can stop worrying about paying down payments. *HiakZ*
things r quite distorted here cuz of our social dynamics. i have aussie friends who got married at 20 and own their own home.
my hubby and i made it work by buying a 3 room first and sparsely furnishing it. then saving for a bigger apartment.
it's hard work, but knowing we're in this together just makes me love him so much more. and respect him so much more.
To all those happily single: Enjoy it man; we'll never be this carefree again!
Davester: No trying to begrudge them happiness, just have dire suspicions that they're storing up trouble for themselves by jumping in too early. For some couples i know who went in with at least some financial grounding, the adjustment period was basically made easier. For so many however, they're just going in not knowing what to expect.Not to mention no sense of family planning.I mean, can you imagine not even being able to afford a place of your own yet then discovering that the new wife is already pregnant? *shudder* Expenses just pile on expenses and life can really get very tough.
faith-t: wow, you and your husband are so sweet and I'm so glad it worked out for you! =)
Disclaimer: this post wasn't really about making generalizations about ALL young couples just about my reaction to some friends who are clearly unprepared for married life but are taking the plunge with both eyes closed.
Disclaimer 2: other responses to comments may be sporadic. Not trying to be rude, just that its exam time for me =(
Cheers!
xue:
I recommended this on Tomorrow because I think it captures the feelings of our generation perfectly.
Too old to be kids, but too young to settle down.
Mr Wang Zhen has been single, then married, then married with kids. And he would like to share a few thoughts.
Starting a married life is a bit like learning to swim. If you won't do it until you're perfectly sure you can do it, then you will never do it. Because you will never be able to do it until you've tried it.
If you won't jump into the pool until you've learned to swim, then you will never swim. Because you cannot learn to swim without first jumping into the pool.
It is your option to never ever learn to swim. But bear in mind that many people in the world can swim very well. And that once upon a time, each of these persons had to learn from scratch too.
As for the purchase of a flat, well, I can only say that if you knew more about the topic, you would probably not feel so afraid. But right now, I will not go into detail. If you ever want to know more about personal financial planning, come visit my blog and give me your questions.
You wrote this:
"You can never decide to just quit a crap job to try out new things, never take on an overseas posting because you're tied down. You're stuck in Singapore for the rest of your life, raising children in a crowded flat ..."
I believe that you overstate the problem. Most barriers are in your own mind.
If you have a certain kind of mindset, you are stuck for the rest of your life in Singapore, whether you are single or married.
Married people are tied down in some ways, but probably less than you expect.
If you do not believe me, simply go around Singapore on a weekend. Go and count the number of foreign talents shopping for groceries at NTUC Fairprice or Carrefour Supermarket. Observe them with their spouse and kids in tow.
How come they weren't tied down by their kids and forced to stay in the US/UK/India/Japan or wherever else they came from?
You have stated your perception that married people with kids don't have time to "try new things". Certainly raising kids takes a lot of time (at least, if you are a responsible parent, it SHOULD take a lot of time).
What you may not really understand or appreciate at this stage of your life is that raising kids can also be a beautiful and important experience. It can be an experience that you engage with so fully that indeed you have little interest in trying out other "new things".
For example, as a single, you may entertain thoughts of learning to scuba dive; or visiting the pyramids of Egypt; or taking up hatha yoga; or obtaining a Masters degree in Creative Writing. These may seem exciting, highly interesting and worthy pursuits.
When you become a parent, these pursuits may suddenly lose their attraction. Instead you may perceive a minor miracle happening right in your home - your baby is growing up! And you may well feel that this is far more exciting and interesting than scuba diving or visiting Egypt could be.
There is no regret. There is no sense of lost opportunity. You may not even remember that once upon a time, you were thinking about learning to scuba dive or of visiting Egypt or getting a Masters degree.
For myself, I can honestly say that now that I have two children, I understand the meaning of the word "love" so much more than I ever did before.
If you do not know what I mean, I would not be surprised. If someone had said this to me before I had children, I think I may not have understood either. The experience is ... well, experiential. You have to go through it yourself to understand.
Then you wrote:
"... Perhaps its because I feel that once one takes on the burden of supporting a HDB flat, one is forever at the mercy of the government ..."
This is what I mean by your inexperience causing you fear. A HDB flat is just a place to live. You can sell it if you do not need it. You then use the sale proceeds to repay the mortgage. With a little bit of luck, you might even make some profit. If the market is unfavourable, you can rent it out for a few years first, while you and your family travel abroad for your overseas posting. The tying down is exaggerated.
As for the following comment:
"I know, intellectually anyway, that there isn't anything wrong with the whole marriage + babies scenario. But there's just something about being stuck in that rut for the next twenty years that really scares me."
I understand how you feel. It really wasn't so long ago that I felt somewhat like you.
But one day you will understand that not having children is a choice, as much as having children is a choice.
Suppose you choose never to have children. Twenty years from now, you may well feel that YOU were the one who had been stuck in a rut.
Your peers will have experienced the joys and challenges of raising children. They will have had their share of a universal kind of human experience. Mothers all over the world know what it means to be a mother. Fathers all over the world know what it means to be a father.
But you will still be the childless single you were, 20 years ago. You're the one who got stuck, who never grew through this vital experience of life. You're the one who missed out on something fundamental.
Much more fundamental than a holiday in Egypt or a Masters degree in Creative Writing could be.
You wrote:
"It makes me resolve that now, while I'm relatively young and carefree, I want to go and do all the things I've always wanted to do first."
I second that. I believe in living a full life myself. In fact, I have a personal blog under another userid where I write extensively on the importance of living a full, meaningful & authentic life. I would tell you where it is, but I prefer to keep it private from the readers of my better-known blog "Commentary Singapore".
I just want to warn you of a little thing that has a tendency of happening to Singaporean women who think like yourself.
I don't want to sound like a clever old fart. I just want to share a personal anecdote about more than a few Singaporean women whom I know, who thought and felt like you.
Most of them are lawyers (like you will be). They postpone marriage / childbirth because of this, and that, and that.
First they want to travel the world. Next they want to work overseas. They wish to focus on their career. Then they want to save money. After that, they want to do their Masters. Then they want to focus on their career again.
Finally at the age of 32 - 36, they decide that they want to have kids.
Suddenly they discover that they cannot conceive. A fertility problem.
It is really a very common problem.
Ironically, at this time, they suddenly realise that they really hate their jobs.
They don't know why they spent so many years of their lives working so hard at a career that they actually detest. Distaste wells up in their mouths.
This is the time when they quit their careers in law firms.
So much effort. For something they hated all along.
Don't make that kind of mistake, my dear Adi. I'm not saying that you should or must have kids soon, or at any time. It is ultimately a personal choice. But I hope my long-winded post has given you some food for thought.
Some things - like travelling to Egypt, doing a Masters degree or learning hatha yoga - can be done whether you're 21 or 35 or 60 years old.
Some other things - like getting pregnant and having a child - cannot be done too late.
By the way, my profile photo is of my baby girl when she was two months old. Isn't she such a dear? :)
I used to think like you do, and actually I still think people should save up more before commiting. Not trying to disregard your views, but I am one of those getting a flat and getting hitched at 23. I've done some shit in my life and I am glad to settle down to a wonderful guy. If you've met the right guy, you'll know when you are both ready. True, that we can't change jobs for the heck of it now. But having your own crib matters to us more than anything else. And nope, we didn't have mama-papa loan :P
Hello Knight
Actually you are right.
The somewhat strange element is that you think the situation is somehow peculiar to Singapore.
The truth is that in any developed country, there are always many people who do not really know how to think about money and therefore get trapped.
Don't take my word for it. Verify it for yourself. The easiest way is to walk into a bookstore & pick up a book on personal financial planning.
Find one that is not written with the Singapore context in mind. For example, a book written by an American author writing primarily for Americans.
What you'll quickly realise is that it's not just Singaporeans who get the sense of being trapped by a mortgage, cars, loans etc.
It seems to be happening in every developed country (yes, Adin, also in Australia, where you currently are - if you like, I'll send you some shocking stats).
Robert Kiyosaki identifies the problem as being one of lack of financial literacy. He thinks that these problems arise because most people have simply never been taught how to manage their money. It is certainly not a subject that is generally taught in schools, the way Maths or Science is.
You may say that houses are much cheaper in Australia or cars are much cheaper in the US, and the situation in Singapore is therefore different.
On the other hand, you will still find in Australia and the US, people who have been working steadily in solid white-collar jobs for years and years, and who might reasonably be expected to be quite wealthy, but who are nevertheless broke & living from paycheck to paycheck.
So it is not a uniquely Singaporean problem. It happens everywhere.
One aspect of the problem is that most people tend to strive for a little more than they can easily afford.
For example, a young married couple from a relatively humble background may apply for a 4-room HDB flat and after that, they feel quite trapped financially.
What they do not realise is that people who are apparently much wealthier than them can feel just as trapped.
For example, I know a young married couple whose parents (on both sides of the family) are extremely wealthy. As a wedding gift, their parents paid the downpayment on their District 10 apartment costing 1.2 million.
It's a great gift. The downpayment is like $240,000.
On the other hand, today the young married couple's monthly salary is getting wiped out by the monthly instalment on their very luxurious home.
It doesn't help that they also drive a BMW.
The husband tells me that he maintains a spreadsheet to track his expenses each month. Down to the last dollar. He keeps track of even how much he spends on lunch at the food court; how much the wife spent on groceries like toothpaste etc.
He needs to. His bank account is tottering next to zero. He is literally living from paycheck to paycheck.
And now -
they REALLY cannot afford to have children.
There is a fundamental problem here which is not related to marriage. It is a problem relating to how people think about money. Maybe more on this, next time.
Main point here is that you can be financially trapped at any age, in any country.
Pop star Elton John is bankrupt, you know? He was forced into doing concerts again because he had to raise money to pay his debts.
And Michael Jackson is selling his ranch. No money to pay his legal fees. You'd think that for someone who's been raking in millions & millions since the early 1980s, legal fees shouldn't be a big bother.
The good news is that it is really not that difficult to learn how to plan your finances properly. Anyone with half a logical brain can work it out, if he firstly invests in two or three good books on the topic.
The bad news is that most people never get around to it. It remains just one of those things at the back of their minds that they think they'll eventually get around.
I'd just like to add that Robert Kiyosaki is a conster, and none of his books are worth the investment.
A good book I would recommend for financial education is:
The Intelligent Investor: The Definitive Book On Value Investing, Revised Edition
Paperback: 640 pages
Publisher: HarperBusiness; Revised edition (July 1, 2003)
Language: English
ISBN: 0060555661
I personally find several of Kiyosaki's ideas quite suspect. Especially his endless real-estate ideas plus his dissing of the merits of education.
On the other hand, his point about financial literacy which I have cited is, I think, quite sound.
And for all the (valid) criticisms that have been levied against Kiyosaki, he does have a huge and undeniable plus point -
his style of writing, being light and quick-moving and very anecdotal, is very digestible and has got millions of people reading about financial planning ... a topic which otherwise is often perceived to be dry, difficult and technical.
mr wang zhen: oh wow, i was so surprised to see your comment; it was so long.
I'm just sorry that I won't be able to give you a response anywhere as well thought out or lengthy. My exams are perilously close and I am so behind in my studying.
Financial planning: yes I do agree that proper financial planning IS something most people need to try and pick up.And sure, I'd love to ask you qns about it sometime.
marriage and being tied down: No, marriage won't keep you from doing all that, at least not if you're really determined. But with a spouse and children in tow, relocation to foreign countries of any sort will definitely be harder to achieve. Quitting a job when you have so many dependents is truthfully something I would see as irresponsible unless one has something else good lined up.Whereas a single would definitely have a great deal more latitude there unless he/she has aged/sick parents to support.
infertility: I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I tend to think of it as an act of god in some ways. It's just as likely to strike you when you're 20 as when you're 35. I know people who have never been able to concieve even though they married young and I also know a couple who married at 40 and are now having their first child. For this, its just difficult to be sure who'll have problems and who won't. Maybe age was a factor for your friends, maybe it wasn't even age that was the problem. My attitude is just whatever will be, will be.
Readiness for marriage: Here is where I might beg to differ. True, no one is ever really ready for marriage. But there has to be at least some kind of preparation as to what it entails.
Marriage is not a step to be taken lightly and yet so many I know are just plunging in with terrifyingly little financial/emotional preparation. Waiting a year or two more will not grant them some magical moment of readiness but it can grant them( hopefully) just a little more life experience and a slightly healthier bank balance.Readiness or the lack thereof, is also something deeply personal. Some people could be ready at 21 and some may not be ready even at 30. One must note that unlike swimming, there are no lifeguards to fish you out if you sink. Also that the divorce rate is probably higher than the drowning rate
My own inexperience: I was the most startled by comment. Probably because my entire post IS about the fact that I am unwilling to take on the responsibilities of adulthood yet.As Shianux commented, I'm at a stage where I'm not a kid any more. But I'm not ready to be a grown up yet.Marriage, buying property, having/raising children, all these are things that are rites to adulthood.
I am not against marriage. I am only against rushing into without any thought or plan as to what it really entails. I happen to actually know people who think that it can just be solved by marrying a rich guy which isn't true.
For those who for any reason find yourself in the same position as I am, just enjoy yourself right now. Don't rush into things just because everyone else is. That has to be the worst attitude about going into a relationship/marriage.
I won't address the problem of HDB flats and why I feel the way I do. Knight of Pentacles has definitely got better written and more coherent arguments about it than a stressed out, sleep deprived me. All I have to say is this, that whether you buy a flat or not, as long as you're Singaporean and/or have many ties to Singapore, then you'll be at the mercy of the government anyway. Otherwise you probably wouldn't be posting under false name and there wouldn't be so many former opposition members hiding out in Australia.
And everyone who bothered to post a comment, thanks.I really appreciate it. There's a lot more I'd love to say, especially on the subject of financial planning but my break is over and I need to start hitting the books again.
Cheers!
P.S By the way, your daughter IS very cute. =) and its nice to read about men like you and mr brown who are such devoted fathers. Almost makes up for all the other jerks out there.
Disclaimer: My post is not in any way against the institution for marriage in general.Neither is it against the bearing/rearing of children.
Adin said:
"infertility: I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I tend to think of it as an act of god in some ways. It's just as likely to strike you when you're 20 as when you're 35."
Nope.
Usual pattern is that a woman's fertility peaks somewhere around three years after their first period (ie they are most fertile somewhere around the teen years).
They then stay quite fertile until somewhere around 31 or 32, and then the fertility falls steadily with each passing year -
and around 37, the fertility drop accelerates.
Also, a child conceived by an older mother (35 years is the usual figure that doctors like to cite) is subject to a higher risk of congenital defects eg Down's Syndrome.
These are real figures that are substantiated by scientific studies (go surf around and you'll see).
Here is an article that probably describes and articulate the issues you guys have been discussing from an Australian perspective.
Gen Y work towards a life, not a career
By Adele Horin
June 4, 2005
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It was hard enough during the 1990s recession for parents to sympathise with their under-employed adult offspring. Back in the bad old days of double-digit unemployment, aggravation with their children's indolence was tempered with patience. The sight of young adults comatose in front of the television could provoke murderous emotions in mums and dads rushing in from a hard day at the office.
But even those parents who believed their children could get a job, if only they tried harder, knew the economy was a mess, and it wasn't easy to find work.
How much harder it is in buoyant times for parents to sympathise with the current underemployed crop of twentysomethings who regard a full-time job as modern-day slavery.
For some time incensed parents have been telling me stories about adult children who find three-day-a-week jobs "tiring" or "stressful". All some can manage is a couple of shifts at a bottle shop, or video outlet. These children did their HSC years ago, and some graduated from university or have TAFE courses under their belt. Some have travelled overseas, and had "time out" to think about their future, and their conclusion is that regular full-time work is too grim, or too boring, or too stressful, or just too darn time-consuming to contemplate.
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With so much part-time and casual work on offer, it is not as if these youngsters are idle dole bludgers. Most worked part-time through uni or high school. And now they no longer study, they still work part-time. They draw no government benefit and appear in no unemployment statistics. They earn enough to sustain their social lives, and to pay their mobile phone bills, and occasionally to hand over a paltry sum for board.
They live in the parental home, located in salubrious suburbs that would otherwise be out of reach to people on a part-time wage. Their parents despair that these young people have no ambition, no get-up-and-go, no stamina for full-time work.
A father tells me of his 21-year-old daughter who left a five-day-a-week receptionist job because it was "too much", and who prefers to do "on-call" work for an accountancy firm a few hours a week. He finally extracted $20 board from her "but it would have been easier for me to work the Saturday shift". A 29-year-old man knocks back extra hours at a bottle shop because he wants to have time to "hang out". He is delighted when he snares his "ideal job", three days a week at a golf club bar. A 26-year-old woman tells her 50-hour-a-week father she is "stressed out" by working three days, and to get off her back. The mother of a 27-year-old celebrates when her son gets his first full-time job.
Parents who are hard workers wonder how they have raised children to have a strong sense of entitlement but little sense of work ethic.
What is behind this apparent shift in attitudes among the young? Undoubtedly their attitudes have been shaped by the times in which they live. And for the twentysomethings, the times offer untold choices in their personal lives, yet less choice in the labour market.
Three days' work exhausts them because they have so much else in their lives, and for this parents must take some of the credit or blame. Parents spent the school years ferrying their kids from one extracurricular activity to another; exposing their children to new experiences. Now the twentysomethings continue to be chronically over-scheduled, addicted to their diverse interests. They have sport, music, the gym, yoga and a wide circle of friends to maintain; and the new media takes up their time - watching cable TV, downloading music, exploring the internet. These are rich and full lives. At the same stage, their parents were busy climbing career ladders.
As the Gen Y researcher Rebecca Huntley, who is writing a book on the post-1981 generation, told me, "They don't want to sacrifice everything for a job; they want a life."
As well, they've seen workaholism in action, and are unimpressed. It took a toll on family life. They saw the grumpiness and tiredness but not the pleasure parents derived from interesting work. In the end some also saw the reward for diligence was retrenchment.
But preference provides only part of the explanation for the generational shift in attitudes to work. The labour market in many ways offers less choice to this generation than to their parents at the same age.
For young people without a degree or trade qualification, it is still hard to get a full-time job, even when they badly want one. Their career prospects have hardly improved in 20 years. And the 5.1 per cent unemployment rate is no real indicator of their chances. When the Australian Bureau of Statistics includes the under- employed who want more hours, and people who want a job but have child care or other barriers to an immediate start, the unemployment rate is 12.1 per cent.
The parents' generation may have started in the public service or the bottom levels of industry and worked up. Today, entry-level jobs are invariably probational - young people are put on contracts, or given part-time work, or traineeships, rather than a permanent position.
It is going to take many in this generation a long time before they get full-time work.
Lazy or just more balanced? Dreamers or just adaptors to labour market realities? The truth encompasses all of the above. It seems parents will need to draw on sympathy and patience, and probably their wallets, for some time to come.
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